Comments on World History Blog: The Dominion of British West Florida and Tips for ...

We need a better word, then, for folks like Empero...

2006-06-30T04:37:00.000-07:00

We need a better word, then, for folks like Emperor Norton. He had a power strategy of sorts, even if it was not a separatist strategy. It was ridiculous; it also worked. People were actually honoring his money.

Emperor Norton was a hoot wasn't he? I love readi...

2006-06-28T09:17:51.910-07:00

Emperor Norton was a hoot wasn't he? I love reading about him.

However, he was never a separatist. He claimed to be the Emperor of the United States and many people such as Queen Victoria and the people of San Fransico humored him. He never tried to separate a single piece of American soil from American control even if he believed he was the legal government of the USA.

Had Norton been a separatist in those days after the American Civil War, he probably would have had a very different fate I think. Would people in California have humored him? I doubt it.

None of your listed steps seems to apply to one of...

2006-06-27T19:18:00.000-07:00

None of your listed steps seems to apply to one of the most successful separatist causes in history, that of Emperor Joshua Norton I. Can we point modern separatists to this other successful stratagem? As an expatriate Texan living in New Jersey, I know I would be pleased if we had an Emperor of Texas, rather than going to all the bother of throwing rigged elections every two years.

I don't think there is a ND separatist movement - ...

2006-04-21T08:29:00.000-07:00

I don't think there is a ND separatist movement - North Dakotans simply don't care that much. Isolationist movement would be a better description, if anything. But I was more just joking.

What I was referring to, though, in regards to the nuclear power was in 2003 there was an article in the Onion (which is a satirical newspaper...so of course the article is meant to be a joke):
http://www.theonion.com/content/node/27654

ND, being so small in population, was a good place during the Cold War to stick our nuclear arsenal - so they got a reputation as a "nuclear" power.

OK, I'll check off both suggestions number 1 and n...

2006-04-21T07:36:00.000-07:00

OK, I'll check off both suggestions number 1 and number 8.

I wasn't trying to apply the Convention to the 1810 effort, but rather to the current 'third restoration effort'.

QUOTE Regardless, if no one recognizes a state, and it has no actual control of any land to even have a de facto existence, it does not exist except as a web activity. END QUOTE

Here we are in complete agreement.

I don't think the Dominion has a chance at recognition by anyone that has a seat at the UN. Now if they could actually get their own 'Citizens' to start calling themselves Dominion Citizens, and they developed an internal Economy, and had a recognizable government, they might have a chance. But as long as the majority of the people in the claimed territory don't consider themselves to be Dominion Citizens, all the 'loop holes, typos, and illegal actions' of the past wont matter one bit. (Even if they are "legally correct", the issue is moot with out a desire for sovereignty on the part of the people)

Actually for me the fun was in doing the research. The events listed on their history page are real. The 'Spin' they give them is 'open for debate' shall we say. But the Facts they claim, are real......

"Unlike Texas and Hawaii, the Congress didn't appr...

2006-04-21T06:13:19.553-07:00

"Unlike Texas and Hawaii, the Congress didn't approved the annexiation of Florida. The annexation by Presidential Proclamation isn't "valid" under the US Constitution. -- See I'm following your advice. (suggestion 8)!"

Actually, you are following suggestion #1 as well where I wrote, "Is there any technicality (no matter how minor) that could be highlighted?" But yeah, that is a good try at #8 too.

"Sovereignty isn't based on recognition (Though we'd be glad to have it, as it SURE HELPS!!!) in the Montevideo Convention, to which the United States, and most other nations on the American Continents, is a signatroy, the first sentence of article 3 explicitly states that "The political existence of the state is independent of recognition by the other states.""

West Florida was annexed in 1810. The Montevidoe Convention is from 1933. It can not be applied retroactively to US action in West Florida as this would be an ex post de facto application of international law.

Regardless, if no one recognizes a state, and it has no actual control of any land to even have a de facto existence, it does not exist except as a web activity.

Enjoy your fun separatist hobby. :]

Minor Point: Unlike Texas and Hawaii, the Congres...

2006-04-21T05:32:00.000-07:00

Minor Point: Unlike Texas and Hawaii, the Congress didn't approved the annexiation of Florida. The annexation by Presidential Proclamation isn't "valid" under the US Constitution. -- See I'm following your advice. (suggestion 8)!

Bigger Point, Sovereignty isn't based on recognition (Though we'd be glad to have it, as it SURE HELPS!!!) in the Montevideo Convention, to which the United States, and most other nations on the American Continents, is a signatroy, the first sentence of article 3 explicitly states that "The political existence of the state is independent of recognition by the other states."

A good proof that the above is actually true is the People's Republic of China. It was certainly sovereign in the 1960s, but most of the world still recognized the Nationalist Chinese Government, not that of the Communists.

(Now all we in the Dominion need to do is get about another billion supporting citizens, a major world economy, a few world class diplomats...)

P.S.
Actions under suggestion 7 are for those more dedicated to the cause than I am. 7-12 in Club Fed just doesn't appeal to me.

Actions under suggestion 6 would likely backfire.

Miland, I seem to recall at one point there was a ...

2006-04-20T20:54:00.000-07:00

Miland, I seem to recall at one point there was a pretty active pro-Florida secession movement. But that one might not count, as it was a movement by non-Floridians hoping that Florida could just go away.

Jennie,If Alaska ever successfully left the USA, I...

2006-04-20T19:02:28.440-07:00

Jennie,

If Alaska ever successfully left the USA, I do not think it would join Canada. The taxes are too high there and Alaskans would not tolerate it!

I must admit thought that of all the American separatist groups, the Alaskans are the least obnoxious. The Texans are the most obnoxious. The Hawaiians are the most delusional. And the Confederate nationalists are the most irrelevant. Hello, the CSA lost!

Is there a North Dakota separatist movement? I had not heard of one before.

Oh, something else...ND could at one point (maybe ...

2006-04-20T15:59:00.000-07:00

Oh, something else...ND could at one point (maybe still...I'm not nuclear warhead savvy) be the third nuclear power in the world if they started their own country.

I love your list! So true! Being from AK I've hear...

2006-04-20T15:56:00.000-07:00

I love your list! So true! Being from AK I've heard the story...the current theory I think is that we should join Canada rather than the US - after all they would let us drill in ANWR!

There is an interesting true story in Georgia hist...

2006-04-19T20:41:00.000-07:00

There is an interesting true story in Georgia history regarding Elijah Clark. He wanted to annex his own little world. It was a very embarrassing moment for George Washington since he had to send out troops to "take care of" Clark who had been a Revolutionary War hero.